and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell (James 3:6). Thirty-three times it stands alone, without modifiers or explanation of what it means, as in And thus we see the end of him who perverteth the ways of the Lord; and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell (Alma 30:60). 20:13). Mormonism - Afterlife and Salvation - Patheos In contrast, Book of Mormon references to the second death are embedded in sermons that teach it in context with other essential elements of the plan of salvation. This is what was taught by several important church leaders, including founder Joseph Smith. I wonder if the language is tripping people up here. They have said things much stranger and I am sure you know of them. Through his Atonement, Resurrection, and ministry in the spirit world, Christ provided a bridge by which repentant souls could cross the gulf from hell to spiritual freedom. You quoted a website (Wikipedia) which is not doctrine and another website (FAIRMormon) which directly says it is not doctrine. Its just Scary bad. Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to Gods justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption (Alma 12:13,1618). The Book of Mormon provides another testament of the reality of a designated place called hell, where the wicked are consigned. Thank you! 6:8). Consistently, hell is associated with fire. Satan and his followers are beings of spirit who were denied bodies and cast out of heaven during pre-mortal existence (see Plan of Salvation). Sons of perdition include (1) those who followed Satan and were cast out of heaven for rebellion during premortality and (2) those who were permitted to be born to this world with physical bodies but then served Satan and turned utterly against God. The New Testament testifies that there is an actual place identified as hell into which people can be cast, as in the case of the wicked, and from which they can lift up their eyes, as in the case of the rich man, and from which they can be delivered, as in the case of King David. In the parable of the talents, the returning lord instructed that the wicked and slothful servant who hid his talent in the earth be cast into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt. Youll never regret it. 28:2223). However, sons of perdition cannot achieve forgiveness and will be completely cast outside of the light of God. (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 125). The phrases depths of hell, awful hell, sleep of hell, pains of hell, chains of hell, everlasting hell, and endless hell are all unique to the Book of Mormon. It clarifies how using an obscure quote does not define LDS doctrines or dogmas. . Comparison Chart - Mormonism and Christianity - Apologetics Is Jesus the Only Redeemer? Which means that really, no one knows anything about this. Outer Darkness. What is Outer Darkness? They once held membership in the church (through baptism/confirmation); They had full knowledge of their apostasy from the true and restored church of Jesus Christ; They continue to fight against the LDS Church despite their knowledge. I did cite sources spoken from the pulpit by a prophet. I said: I dont know and he said, How can I find outI just called Spencer Kimball and he told me he didnt know either. 185 Heber J. Yes, they were said by Prophets of their church. Dennis L. Largey was an associate professor of ancient scripture at Brigham Young University when this was published. You have to be pretty bad to go to the Teresita's kingdom, and horrendous to go to outer darkness. 22:13) that awaits the wicked? This is the second death. Additionally it provides helpful commentary on New Testament passages concerning hell. Banishment from the power of God. Thus, the second death is taught in conjunction with the first death, which came as a consequence of the Fall of Adam and Eve, and also with the Atonement of Jesus Christ, which redeems all of humankind from the first death through resurrection and the second death through repentance. The Nephites became so wicked, that contemplating murder was a source of happiness. 11:23). What is the Book of Mormons contribution to our understanding of the New Testaments teachings concerning hell, or that lake of fire John calls the second death (Rev. The Book of Mormon does not teach the doctrinal truth that hell will end for the majority of those who suffer in the spirit prison prior to being resurrected and entering the telestial kingdom; however, this truth is clearly taught in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 76:3638, 106). Horror Short Film "Outer Darkness" | ALTER | Online Premiere Also, you can read this too. Then is the time when their torments shall be as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever; and then is the time that they shall be chained down to an everlasting destruction, according to the power and captivity of Satan, he having subjected them according to his will. Banishment from the joys of heaven. Those mortals who did join the LDS Church in this lifetime must fit the following criteria to be classified as a son of perdition, with a destiny to outer darkness. (You are not one of those spirits since you have a mortal body.). These are they who do two very specific things. We probably do not want to know how horrible it is just like in this life, some things that are so horrible that happen (especially to children) wed rather not know about it, if possible. In this context, outer darkness is the spirit prison, or that part of the spirit world that the wicked inhabit prior to their resurrection. At the same time, prophets and apostles have taught that you can be sent to outer darkness for simply disbelieving or for apostasy or for being a part of a religion that doesn't have apostles. 67, LDS Church Archives. 1. The Outer Darkness Dilemma - Official Website of the ex-Mormon Apologist Gregory A. Boyd, Paul R. Eddy Across the Spectrum: Understanding Issues in Evangelical Theology pp285 2009 "For example, how can hell be a place of outer darkness (Matt. See Michael Hicks, Joseph Smith, W.W. Phelps, and the Poetic Paraphrase of The Vision, Journal of Mormon History 20 (Fall 1994) 2: 63-84 for discussion of authorship of this poem.). (See D&C 76:2835, 4448.) 14:1519). to become a son of perdition? The Book of Mormon contains six references to the second death: one reference by Jacob (Jacob 3:11), three by Alma (Alma 12:16, 32; 13:30), and two by Samuel the Lamanite (Hel. It occurs in a doctrinal discussion Alma conducted with his son Corianton. However, not once have I ever suspected such a person to be a closet believer in Mormonism. Grant Building Outer Darkness is the permanent location of Satan and his followers and the Sons of Perdition, who are not redeemed by the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 5. The Concept of Hell | Book of Mormon Central 9:16; emphasis added). Outer darkness is a eternal place of torment reserved for those who are sons of perdition. According to LDS scripture, this will be a place that where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth (Doctrine and Covenants 101:91; also see 133:73). Source: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition. It is true that the only mortals who had once been members are eligible to become sons of perdition, a fact that may worry some former Mormons who wonder if they might be destined for outer darkness. Concerning the first resurrection John observed: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years (Rev. We will, however, address some of the portrayals of other LDS beliefs and practices that were depicted in this episode. Thank you! And thats why men alone get, I mean need the priesthood. . The extent of this punishment none will ever know except those who partake of it. This is full on rejection of God. Other sources used in composing this topic: http://en.fairmormon.org/Plan_of_salvation/Sons_of_Perdition/Can_women_be_%22Sons_of_Perdition%22, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_darkness#Usage_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement, http://en.fairmormon.org/Plan_of_salvation/Sons_of_Perdition/Eventual_fate, http://emp.byui.edu/satterfieldb/quotes/Sons%20of%20Perdition.htm. Who of the following is NOT eligible for Outer Darkness. It's not as simple as you make it out to be. The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. Even the regular Wikipedia seems confused: Sons of Perdition are: The pre-mortal spirit followers of Satan. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List, You continue to fight against the true church, Those spirits who rebelled against God in the preexistence are the original sons of perdition. Some Christians have believed the lake of fire John spoke of to be a literal lake. Pingback: The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, A Son of Perdition is: One of the messages of the Book of Mormon is that people sometimes lose the desire to repent. Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind from the first deaththat spiritual death; for all mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual. Mormons believe that there Prophets are fallible and in no way perfect. - Wilford Woodruff in a meeting with the apostles, 1893 D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1997) p. 795. . [4] Augustine, The City of God, trans. ). While John could be referring to the sons of perdition in this passage, the specific sins he identified are characteristic of those who will suffer in hell but, after experiencing their part in the lake of fire, will be released from their torment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:10312). Hence, the very worse lot in their lives will be the telestial kingdom. Well thats wrapped up as long as no other prophets said oh. 3:20; 10:9- 10; Eph. Possibly but there is no citation there either. Ah yes, well with clarity like that, why would Jeremy ever doubt them and ask for official sources! But wait! J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881. . 9:1012, 1516). Therefore the Lord used Satans evil acts to accomplish his own purposes. In the Bible, the phrases lake of fire and lake of fire and brimstone, describing the fate of the wicked, are unique to the book of Revelation. Clearly fire is used as a metaphor for sufferingnot a literal fire but a state of misery. About 74 B.C. The Plan of Salvation kind of negates the reason for missionary work Thus the Book of Mormon does seem to contain a reference to the degrees of glory and outer darkness. And I said unto them that our father also saw that the justice of God did also divide the wicked from the righteous; and the brightness thereof was like unto the brightness of a flaming fire, which ascendeth up unto God forever and ever, and hath no end (1 Ne. But to pass it off as a belief of an entire Church, organization and people is wrong. One of these guests, however, appeared without the proper wedding attire. Many of the apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The sons of perdition are those who have had a knowledge of the truth, have known that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, have had the testimony of the Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Ghost, and these things have all been revealed so that they know they are true; and then they turn against them and fight them knowingly (Conference Reports, April 1942, p. 27. Those in this second group will be resurrected from the dead but will not be redeemed from the second (spiritual) death and cannot dwell in a kingdom of glory (D&C 88:32, 35). [DS 2:225.] Jesus also referred to outer darkness in two parables he gave during the last week of his life. To add an RSC website shortcut to your home screen, open the website in the Safari browser. Today, interpretation of these "outer darkness" verses are a subset of Protestant discussion on hell and annihilationism. So there you go, the souls who end up in Outer Darkness are clearly apostates, or not. 21:8). The phrase first occurs in Jesus' comment concerning the faith of the Centurion of Capernaum: And I say to thee that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven: But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. He cried: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death. This desperate cry for forgiveness through Christ brought deliverance from the pains of hell Alma had experienced because of his sins (Alma 36:1620). When the lights were out and we were on the verge of sleep, our camp counselor took advantage of the moment and endeavored to imprint his teachings upon the minds of his captive audience. This extreme punishment will not be given to any but the sons of perdition ( Doctrines of Salvation 2:220 ). Plagiarism and The Globe a comparative analysis, The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition_(Mormonism), https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What_is_Mormon_Doctrine.pdf, https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Plan_of_salvation/Sons_of_Perdition/Can_women_be_%22Sons_of_Perdition%22, LDS Church and Same Sex Marriage Timeline, The Pump LDS film and the original source, Ethan Smith, Hyrum Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Solomon Spaulding connections. A lot of people wanted a source on that. I was taught that to be condemned to outer darkness you would have to deny Christ to his very face and that could occur . Wilford Woodruff in a meeting with the apostles, 1893 D. Michael Quinn, The Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power (Salt Lake City, Utah: Signature Books, 1997) p. 795. After the millennium, after the last great battle between the forces of God and the forces of Satan, Satan and his followers will be cast into Outer Darkness. We believe that after the final judgment there are four places to which a person may be sent. He wrote: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death (Rev. For many are called, but few are chosen." Which would be a sure-fire way to know that a spirit is headed to Outer Darkness? This is the final destination of Satan himself. In short, Outer Darkness is eternal torture. 5:22), burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire (Matt. There was a movement a few years ago to have people deny the holy spirit on Youtube, where many a youtuber claimed they would now go to Outer Darkness. They place themselves beyond the power of repentance and beyond the mercies of God. 67, LDS Church Archives. But unofficial prophets speaking at BYU or in their own books say no, except Brigham in the Journal of Discourses which is unofficial. ( Miracle of Forgiveness 129-30) The Lord Will Judge For persons not to receive forgiveness neither in this world nor in the world to come does not mean that they will be cast into outer darkness, for the sin of murder can be pardoned even though it is unforgivable. 5:22), as were those who failed to cast away their sins (JSM 5:34; cf. The first example would be spirits from the preexistence who sided with Lucifer rather than Jesus at the Council in Heavenwhere it was decided who would become the Savior of the World. There are possible characteristics of a son of perdition. According to the churchs website: The followers of Satan who will suffer with him in eternity. Outer darkness is something which cannot be described, except that we know that it is to be placed beyond the benign and comforting influence of the Spirit of God banished entirely from his presence (Doctrines of Salvation2:220). Even the wicked of the earth who never knew the power of God, after they have paid the price of their sinningfor they must suffer the excruciating torment which sins will bringshall at last come forth from the prison house. Source. Meanwhile, sixth President Joseph F. Smith, also taught that a full knowledge of the truth is necessary, adding that not even Judas Iscariotthe betrayer of Jesuswill be destined for Outer Darkness: It is probable that only personages who have acquired similar full knowledge, who willfully and deliberately deny the truth, when they know it to be the truth, can commit the unpardonable sin and become sons of perdition. 801-422-6975. Hell - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Does this description of God make it sound as if he is just (at least according to an LDS context)? 2:8-10) Jesus' atonement provided immortality for all people. Outer darkness - Wikipedia In this parable, a king arranged a wedding for his son, but the normal guests did not come; therefore, the king sent his servants to gather guests from off the street. Even if I did, I still am not eligible for outer darkness. (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881.). So why dont we get outer darkness too? hell.. Doctrine and Covenants / Pearl of Great Price, Mormon Objections to Christian Evangelism, Teachings of the Presidents of the Church, Why Practically NobodyIncluding You, Former MormonWill Ever End up In Outer Darkness, Divine Love in the Fathers Plan (Dallin H. Oaks, April 2022). Now go take a nap and rest well! Think along the lines of a religious leader serving God but the opposite. For those born in this life, the person must be a former member who knew Mormonism was true but still rebelled and went against the truth while still knowing it was true. So, in conclusion, I would have a hard time believing that you or billions of souls as you put will qualify for perdition even while taking Mormon beliefs into account. I have no fear of hell fire, that doesnt exist, but the torment and disappointment of the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstoneso is the torment of man. First, it is another name for spirit prison, a temporary place in the postmortal world for those who died without a knowledge of the truth or those who were disobedient in mortality. In each of the New Testament references to outer darkness, Christ declared the punishment that awaits faithless and wicked people. . He wrote. One fire certainly shall be the lot of both. [4]. Ball (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 2001), 7789. So I found one, by Joseph F. Smith, Thus we see that the first death which came into the world is also the last death which shall be pronounced upon the sons of perdition. The Seeker: 'Big Love' in big trouble with Mormons - Chicago Tribune 23:33). Bad as they may suffer, and awful as their punishment may be, they are not among that group which is to suffer the eternal death and banishment from all influence concerning the power of God (Conference Reports, October 1958, 21). Who goes to Outer Darkness, a handy guide - Exploring Mormonism . Outer Darkness - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints The terms spiritual death or second death, lake of fire and brimstone, and outer darkness are all synonymous with hell, and all are descriptive of both the temporary and the permanent hell. The first three are referred to as the three degrees of glory, often compared to the sun, the moon, and the stars ( D&C 76:70, 78, 98 ). 21:8; see also 19:20). GOSH. 12:22; Morm. Brigham Young University Professor Larry E. Dahl reported: The word hell appears sixty-two times in the text of the Book of Mormon. Any person who inherits one of the . [3] Larry E. Dahl, The Concept of Hell, in Doctrines of the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1992), 4243. Is outer darkness reserved for apostate LDS? - Ask Gramps Generally, the outer darkness is thought to be hell; however, many Christians associate the outer darkness more generally as a place of separation from God or from the metaphorical "wedding banquet" that Jesus is expected to have upon his Second Coming. Becoming a son of Perdition is hard therefore going to outer darkness is hard. WOMEN ARE BEAUTIFUL ANGELS WHO ARE INCAPABLE OF SINNING. They will not have a kingdom of glory. These pains are similar to the state of suffering experienced by the ungodly who after mortality are assigned to hell. The Book of Mormon presents several significant insights concerning the lake of fire and brimstone of which John spoke. Did I really have full knowledge? For example: everlasting fire (Matt. 18:8)? Requirements for Outer Darkness : r/exmormon - reddit.com The question is, what exactly does full knowledge entail? They knew better but still chose wrong, one told me. From its beginnings, it taught that very few people would go to "outer darkness" the Mormon concept of hell.